27th of August 2005, Portugal, Windsurfing Euro-Cup Oeiras

Day 3

Photos by Marek Brzozowski namaxa.com

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oliver | 28th August 2005 (09:59:00)

Nice photos,cud be nice to see more pics and movies like this.Go on this way,aloha!

c | 28th August 2005 (11:35:19)

hi:

what was the C'tees decision on the protests of Wojtek (vs. Devon) and Micah (vs. Keith)?

tx & keep up the good coverage!

c

kj | 28th August 2005 (12:37:28)

Finally Devon and Micah DSQ and Keith and Wojtek RDG

MB34 | 28th August 2005 (20:08:46)

Yeah finally KJ I was wondering how many times it would take to reopen these protest hearings before the were decided in favor of Wjotek. In the end that was all the comitte was really after, not the fair decision based on eye witness accounts.

sitka | 28th August 2005 (20:51:50)

Why did the windward overtaking board in each case not keep clear of leaward, outside the two board circle from the committee boat? Curious. I thought that would be first and overriding requirement.

c | 28th August 2005 (22:11:15)

kj:

it would be good if the c'tees decisions (& their motivation) were published (or at least made public in a more substantiated way), if only to avoid comments like the one of 'mb34'.

anyway, i think many competitors would be interested to learn how the racing rules apply to the situations at hand.

thanks

c

kj | 28th August 2005 (22:19:23)

I asked Matthis for this! I am not in Portugal!

c | 28th August 2005 (22:36:42)

ok, thanks upfront.

br,

c

CCPortugal | 29th August 2005 (11:41:53)

Why still continue to make the Euro-cup in Oerias. Its a shit place to race, every racers in the Euro-cup says that its not a good place to make Formula Races in Oeiras. The wind is very shifty, change strong between 5 knots and 25 knots. The beach its very far from the place where is the course, and finally the river current is about 4 knots. Is this a good place to race??

ceri | 29th August 2005 (12:36:25)

Euro Cup is a Pro-Am Tour. In the ideal world every event on the Tour would be able to guarantee perfect conditions , good organisation and good sponsors. Oeiras has good organisers and sponsors -but conditions can be'tricky ' !
Pro's surely need to be able to adapt to the event .Shifty , tactical , conditions may suit some sailors more than others .
Bad luck can affect any sailor , any time , any place . Any tour - national or international - can have its share of disappointments ; hence the discards .
I can assure you that organisrs want to deliver quality events - and of course organisers also need happy sailors !
Not easy to strike a perfecrt balance !

CCPortugal | 29th August 2005 (12:54:33)

I understand that, but in Portugal we have lost of places to make Formula Windsurfing races, for example, in the Algarve near the place where Miguel Martinho to is traning, why chouse a bad place to race with also big boats crossing the formula course. If the race was in a good place may be we have more windsurfing guys coming to Portugal.

ceri | 29th August 2005 (13:48:38)

We went to Portimao for Euro Cup earlier in the year - a very good event .
I am also hoping to finalise a European Championships in Portimao .

quarter | 29th August 2005 (21:46:19)

How stupid can CCPortugal be... can't he understand that the money comes from Oeiras, so it is obviously they want a event in their beach. other wise we could get places like sylt to give us the money and make a event in Hawaii. try to wake up to reality. we go where the money is, so what if it's shifty and lots of current, adapt to it like ceri said and stop complaining.
go sail and train some more

doctor X | 29th August 2005 (23:18:24)

anyway it was not so bad. But I will not go there never again (not to race)

doctor X | 29th August 2005 (23:22:46)

about the protest--->>> What is the rule about the protest committee juries? I think that thisone in Oeiras was one of the worst in the world including Mattias ( does he have any papers), a boy from the security boat, and an other german (the best one).

anything goes | 30th August 2005 (03:44:30)

anything goes in Euro Cup with rules. get anyone off the beach and tell them to get in the protest room and make a decision.

if sailors go to the events, then they will continue to support these low standards. who really is making the money? the racing is shitty and the organization is shitty.

ceri | 30th August 2005 (11:21:51)

Everyone as the right to be heard if they a complaint or positive criticism to make . This forum is not the correct place to enter into detailed discussion on the issues raised . Of course the committee will revue all the activity of the class , and i welcome your detailed feedback by email .
Meanwhile all the info you need regarding 'Protest Committees' cn be found in the RRS2005-2008 (best look at the Windsurfing Competition Rules -WCR-version )and appendix M & N .

CCPortugal | 30th August 2005 (11:39:39)

Only to answer to QUARTER guy. I make races in Portugal since 20 years ago in sailing boats and in Windsurfing since Lechner boards. I have sailed in every place in Portugal and Oeiras is one the worst places do race and sail, if you go to Portugal you don´t see anyone do windsurfing in Oeiras. The problem regarding the money that you told in Portugal we have lots of Cityhall´s we money to sponsor this kind of campionship not only Oeiras. If we continue to make races in places like Oeiras I think in my modest opinion, that the number of windsurfers taht goes to this kind of races will reduce dramastic. For example in Portugal we have 20 guys doing Formula and to this race only goes 6 guys why it was? Maybe the place is not good to race?

Krafty | 30th August 2005 (13:10:14)

CC Portugal - perhaps use your knowledge & contacts & experience to discuss better options for venues and negotiate prize money etc for these venues to put on EC / PWA events at these places. I've not windsurfed in portugal, but reading this info on here, no-one is doing a lot to promote the venue as a windsurf destination, so perhaps doing an injustice to the event sponsors. Ceri suggests more constructive discussion to be conducted via email and i have always found him approachable and supportive with his main aim to ensure top quality events for the competitors. Put your money where your mouth is and go make it happen, I did the same with a local council in UK and we enjoyed a very successful slalom/freewave event as a result. Anybody who has 'better' venues and contacts to make events happen should talk / email Ceri and for sure he'll listen and help make things happen. I wonder if the event had seen perfect flat water and 10-18 knt winds without the shifts etc, would anyone complain ? The action shots on line showed what looked to be exciting racing, and the conditions are surely the same for all competitors so perhaps the luckiest guy wins this time. Old saying 'the more you practice the luckier you become' ... perhaps the luckiest guy was the best also ?

quarter | 30th August 2005 (16:38:03)

I agree with Krafty, why don't you CCPortugal, help out and try to get some cityhall to sponsor the event in a good place, that is what miguel did, he told the organizers in Overpower to do a event in Portimao, and he had the contacts, and the event was a big sucess.
so make your sport grow in your country by helping promote and do events and don't bring the event down that had great organization, with free acomodation to the first 30 riders to register, good price money, lots of boats to rescue people, good security, lunch, airport pick up and drop off enven in early mornings... I could go on and on. So once again if you want to make windsurfing grow in your country, promote the event and try to help make other events. would be great if we could have 5 eurocups in portugal and whoever does't like oeiras dont have to go.
Best regarsd and if you are complaining about shift conditions, believe me there is worst places, with, shitty cold winds, shore brake where you would probably brake all you equipment and so on

Krafty | 30th August 2005 (17:57:09)

Not just CC Portugal though hey ... if everyone can help raise the profile fo the sport at their local patch, some will get sufficient interest to want to host a prestige event, others will just boost grass roots interest ... we all win either way, and it boosts your own personal local profile too. I see it as interesting that CC Portugal states their are 20 people in Portugal racing FW, and only 6 went to this event. If there were 60 FW racers in Portugal then 18 would have gone perhaps to this event. In the UK we reguarly see 40 plus FW competitors at UKWA events, yet I don't recall seeing a EuroCup event, or indeed a PWA event since Brighton hosted some in the neon 90's. The more options available for these events, the better quality they will be for all as I'm sure the highest bidders will get priority ensuring increased facilities, benefits & prizemoney for competitors? Communicate ideas with Ceri and others on the organising side, I should think with support things will go from strength to strength for our sport.

CCPortugal | 31st August 2005 (10:48:44)

I agree with Krafty, if everyone help the sport may be he grows more and with more strong. Fore example Spain have lots of good places to do also a Euro-cup or a European Campionship. Normally we go also to make some races in spain and normally they have 40 to 50 guys doing Formula Racing, and always they have prize money on the events. May be if cery or matthias or the IWA could contact some persons in spain to do some events. In Portugal we have 3 fantastic places for formula racing they are Portimão, Alvor and Lagos, clean Water stable wind very very near to the beach. May be next year we do same races in this places.

Theo | 31st August 2005 (11:32:03)

Any info yet on the jury's motivation and decisions about the protests? I'm pretty curious to know what I'd better do in these situations which often happen...

ceri | 31st August 2005 (11:53:49)

i am not sure that is a matter or this forum .
Email me your questions ?

racer | 31st August 2005 (16:58:54)

why not for this forum? we're all interested to know what are the rules and how to apply them in those situations, which can happen to all of us out there racing...

racer

ceri | 31st August 2005 (17:18:18)

I understand that, and we intend to do the job properly and publsh the results on the website .It will be a sort of RRS Casebook -2005/2008 Windsurfing version.

Theo | 1st September 2005 (12:50:13)

> It will be a sort of RRS Casebook -2005/2008
> Windsurfing version.
Something like that would be pretty usefull, but don't hesitate to already publish snippets of the casebook before it's finished.
In other words, better to read lots of small articles than one big casebook with lots of cases.

bryan Mcdonald | 2nd September 2005 (08:47:41)

i think a windsurfing casebook would be an excellent read.

one can learn a lot from the already existing case book. it's the authoratative interpretation of the rules (even for windsurfing). you can get it for free here: www.sailing.org/rrs2005/casebook2005.pdf

check out case 24 for a case that may be similar to what happened in portugal. "When a boat becomes overlapped to leeward from clear astern, the other boat must act promptly to keep clear. When
she cannot do so in a seamanlike way, she has not been given
sufficient room."

bryan mcdonald
us sailing appeals committee member


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